Abbey National Bank Charges
30 Sep 2006 12:03 by Mark
I'm not a customer of the Abbey National Bank. I've heard so many bad things about the company that it would just never cross my mind to trust my money with them. In the list of things more preferable to being a customer at that particular banking institution I might include:- umbrella up the backside ... then opened,
- an evening with anybody who has ever appeared on Blind Date,
- employment as Marc Almond's stomach-scrubber.
Now let's take my father: my father does bank with the Abbey National. Oh noes!!1! He doesn't have any of the internets! Yes, I'm afraid he trusted his earnings to them. And - just like so many other account holders - he's probably been overcharged by the bank.Probably.
We don't know for sure because - and you'll like this - it appears the Abbey National Bank are incapable of telling him. They know, of course, one way or the other. They just can't seem to part with this really quite useful information.
In the U.K. we have something called the Data Protection Act. It's an act of law designed to protect data. One of the things it does is obligate any holders of data about an individual to divulge that data within 40 days of requesting for a nominal, maximum charge of £10.
If you ask for your data - your charges over the last five years, for example - from your bank then they MUST give you that data within 40 days AND you can't be charged more than £10 for the privilege.
I thought I'd make that clear. It seems clear to me. Maybe it does to you. To the employees and management at Abbey it would appear that this is too complicated to grasp.
Let's talk about my father again: he's ill. Nothing major but - and this is quite important - it's the sort of illness that is affected by, among other things, stress.
Dealing with a bank - any bank - can be stressful. When it comes to dealing with the Abbey National, though, Mogadon users turn green, rip their shirts off, and smash things into pulpy messes. If only they'd smash the executives into pulpy messes! Wishful thinking.
This post is simply an informative (perhaps) insight into how Abbey operates (if you're not an Abbey customer then please accept my hearty congratulations and you might want to browse somewhere else; there's little trademarked neOnbubble humour but dangit to heck! if I can't get all serious every now and then when riled). Sure, their refusal to cooperate with my dad's wishes and the fact this is affecting his health is a concern but that's just a private one. Really, I just thought that it would be useful for customers of Abbey National to have some idea of what to expect should they find themselves in the unfortunate - but possibly inevitable - situation of seeing if they can recover any excessive bank charges. Let's see how the bank handles its money and its customers.
Step One: Request Banking Data
You'll take advantage of the provision in the Data Protection Act that allows you to request personal data held about you by an organisation. You'll send a cheque for £10 made payable to Abbey National along with a letter requesting:
- a list of all bank charges levied against you over the past - ooh, let's say - five years.
- your bank charges cast in granite and delivered by sea eagles,
- a personal visit by your bank manager reciting your bank transactions in haiku format,
- phone numbers and undraped photographs of all female bank clerks aged between 18 and 26.
Step Two: Wait For Forty Days
Experience shows that you'll wait for forty days without hearing a thing but it may be different in your case. It might only be thirty nine. Take the time to enrol in yoga or meditation classes. Learn to breathe deeply and picture calm things in your mind. None of this will help during the next steps but it's apparently very good for you.
Step Three: The Response! The Response!
Abbey National will grudgingly respond eventually. You may have had to chase them up once and will receive an interim apology and some comment about how these things take time but you can ignore that lying waste of paper. Concentrate on the real response!
Here's what you'll get: NOT VERY MUCH.
What Abbey will do is send you a small amount of data - copies of your bank statements from the last six months, perhaps - and, in the accompanying letter, they will claim that the rest of the data is stored on the latest, high-tech storage system of the year 3000: THE MIGHTY MICROFICHE.
So what? Indeed. They'll also mention that the Data Protection Act doesn't require them to send the microfiche to you but that they can ... for an extra fee far in excess of what they owe you, not that they know because computers haven't been invented yet and they keep their record in drawers in the basement. And it's all cobwebby down there!
They're right. They don't have to send you the microfiche. But ...
- you didn't ask for microfiche,
- you didn't mention microfiche,
- you don't want microfiche,
- you may not even know what microfiche is if you haven't been in a library in years/ever,
- you asked for your data.
- copies of your statement,
- a computer printout of charges,
- forming the charges using dwarfs arranged throughout the countryside and then taking you for a hot air balloon trip overhead to photograph the event,
- hiring monks (probably the ones with vows of poverty as they're cheaper) to transcribe from the microfiche into a gold-leaf manuscript and then delivering it via a religiousesque procession.
Step Four: Report Abbey National Bank
You'll browse to the Information Commissioner's Complaints page and report Abbey National for a violation of the Data Protection Act. You won't be the first. You won't be the last. Abbey might be being fined huge amounts as a result of all these customer abuses; who knows and who cares! You've done your bit in trying to make them change their ways and treat their bank account holders as people rather than shit on the bottom of their shoes that they try to leave on as long as possible only because it makes them taller and more threatening to Tom Cruise. Something like that.Step Five: The Reasonable Pleading
You're probably British and complaining is an unseemly act that the colonials do but it does seem that your bank is taking the piss somewhat ... perhaps you should write the bank another letter. Mention that you've reluctantly reported them to the ICO. Reluctantly point out that you are still entitled to your data and they still haven't provided it and we're well past the maximum 40 days allowance period. Pray to whichever religion is favoured by bank managers - one of the ones big on nightly visits from incubi and succubi at a guess - hoping for enlightenment and the formation of the phrase "customer satisfaction" into the head of just one person working at the bank and post it.
Step Six: Delaying Tactics
Abbey National is upset that you have a problem and if you'd like to ... waffle, waffle, blah, mumbo-jumbo.
Step Seven: Sue Abbey National Bank
You're going to have to sue the bank. I know, I know. How terribly unpatriotic of you. You have to try to remember:
- your bank doesn't care about you,
- your manager sits in rooms with his cronies and laughs about you, claiming that you'll give up because you're weak and that you have a poor sex life owing to infectious genital warts,
- your bank breaks into your home and steals the coins down the back of your sofa too.
But wait! How do you know how much to claim for? If you remember ... the Abbey failed to provide you with the data!
And now you know why.
You're just going to have to take a guess. Don't be greedy. And show your working out or you get no marks.
File your claim and wait for step eight ...
Step Eight: Money!
Abbey National won't dispute the claim because they are either:
- not intelligent enough to recognise a court summons,
- fully aware they're about to get torn a new one,
- evil,
- still well within the margins whereby it's worth taking the fines and settling the claims without dispute of those who persevere through their delaying tactics rather than admit to a problem and face a company-closing legal payout en masse.
I hope this guide helps someone. If nothing else it's helped me to vent a little after hearing all the stress my dad is getting from dealing with the Abbey. It's my website. About time I used it for my benefit.
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Thanks,
Kate
To be honest I'm not sure; on the one hand I would imagine that the bank still has all your details. On the other hand they might actually be protected by the Data Protection Act in this instance which has provisions for not holding irrelevant data. Again, though, they might be required to hold this particular data for accounting purposes.
I would check out and ask this question here: http://www.penaltycharges.co.uk/forums/
You're more likely to find someone with more knowledge on this situation among the people there.
I believe I still have some of the statements although not all, and I have a pretty good idea of how much I was charged as I paid it off in full so perhaps I could go down the road of 'estimated charges' which i saw on the BBC website.
Hopefully I can! I will post on the forum as you advised.
Has anyone heard of anyone claiming back charges from a closed account?
Kate :)
I have started claiming back from Natwest from a closed account and they have been very helpful about the whole procedure. The only problem for me was getting the old bank statements as they had all been shredded along with my bank card, bank account number etc.
Just phone up the bank on their Customer Service number and each bank should be able to tell you the department that is dealing with it and the procedure to follow!
Good Luck!
Ben
The cost must only reflect the ACTUAL amount it has cost them whch has been estimated by banking professionals and similar people involved with the industry as an ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM of £4.50.
It becomes unlawful if the banks make ANY kind of profit from transactions relating to penalty charges which they have admitted that they do and a great chunk of their recently advertised 4.5 BILLION profit is made up from peoples penalty charges.
This is the reason why law firms, solicitors, consumer groups, Internet sites etc everywhere are telling people to claim back their charges.
This is also one of the reasons why people are doing just that and getting millions of pounds paid back every week at the moment.
You can claim 6 Years of charges back, THEY ARE DEEMED UNLAWFUL, but you won’t get them if you don’t ask.
One may say ” but I signed a contract agreeing to the charges ”, It makes absolutely no difference because the contract is not worth the paper it is written because the charges are way beyond what they should have been charging you and therefore would not stand up in a court of law.
This is why the banks will not contest this in court, No bank has done because they know they would lose and they are refunding.
It may happen that in the future they may decide to defend an action but if they did, then they would have to justify their charges of £35 or more for around 2 or 3 minutes work which obviously they can’t.
The leaflets they hand out when they open your bank accounts stating their fees and charges would be laughed at if it went to court.
Look on the net, look in the media, it’s advertised everywhere, the banks have no defence.
Charges are ok but as stated before, they can not make a profit from the transaction which they have been doing.
Its the actual amount they have been charging which is unlawful.
Get your money back, go to either;
moneysavingexpert.com
or
penaltycharges.co.uk
You will be surprised.
Somewhere along your time with your bank you will have been charged, you can claim even if your account is now closed.
ABBEY NATIONAL BANK
Get Your Money Back
Telephone Direct and claim your bank charges back
MR TOM JERRED
SENIOR CUSTOMER RELATION MANAGER
0845 600 6014
Ask to Speak to him direct
PAM SPEED
BANKING SERVICING
08457 654321
Ask to Speak to her direct
MR RICHARD JONES
SENIOR MANAGER
0870 607 6000
Ask to speak to him direct
Telephone Direct and claim your bank charges back
Other muppets working for this bank accepting your complaints who you can contact are
Laura Dunraven 08459 724 724
and guess what, yes,
The Head of Complaints Dick Harris
0845 600 6014
You probably have to mow your way through 45 minutes of blasts from the past, 5 more muppets somewhere in Milton Keynes or Delhi and an automated service before you actually can speak to him but persistance will eventually pay off.
If not, send them an email to customerservices@abbey.com
At the moment they are using your money and interest on your money to carry out an 8 week investigation to justify charges in which they pressed a few buttons on their keyboards to inform you that you were overdrawn by anything over 1p, or you didn't have a direct debit paid because of lack of funds or they had to bounce a cheque because of lack of funds in you account.
For the buttons pressed and the sheet of A4 paper which was sent out to you which was automated they will be charging you in the region of £35.00 ( But they did have to pay the postage, ) and being generous, that is included in your charge which they will take next month).
On very rare occasions it may have been passed to a different department downstairs to see if the transaction could be approved.
This Hard to come by decision with a YES OR No Answer obviously has to be done manually and does takes time, probably including thinking time all of 12 seconds which means that altogether the time involved with pressing the keyboard is around 40 seconds.
Materials involved, 1 sheet of A4 paper, Ink, Envelope & Stamp plus overheads probably works out at around £4.00 Maximum, which is what the experts say, not me the banking proffesioals and the experts.
The banks make profits of around 4.5 Billion Per Year
which you can see whilst they are getting £35 of your hard earned cash each time and a total of ( £29.00 ) profit for an absolute maximum of 3 minutes work, means they love you.
They don't want to pay you back and have enough of your money which they have stole from you over the years to carry on fighting and disputing this.
But unfortunately the law is the law and even though Dick Turpin wore a mask and the bank's don't have to, they will be brought to justice eventually.
Computers play a major part becase they do the work in seconds not like years ago when EVERYTHING was done manually.
Banks have forgotten this and forgotten the respect for their customers.
.
After around 8 weeks you will get a letter saying their charges have been applied correctly and they are not going to refund which is normal.
So for 8 weeks they have been milling around in their departments taking coffee breaks, playing solitaire, painting their nails, talking about their night out at the weekend, telling each other about their holidays, pressing buttons on their keyboard adding up their charges which they imposed upon you, and then one final press sending a message to the printer and the letter goes out to you and thousands of others stating you ain't getting anything back.
What a complete and utter waste of time and resources.
If you pursue, you will get your money back, why don't they all just do the right thing and refund straight away.
They just love spending your money, not their money, your money, wasting their own time, the court's time and yours, don't bother take them straight to Court, Its easy and you will win.
Oh and by the way once again some people are worried saying that they signed a contract with the bank and agreed with the bank’s charges when they opened the account.
This makes no difference, because what the banks have been doing is unlawful, they are only allowed to charge you the ACTUAL cost involved and it is unlawful to make any profit.
That is why millions of £s are being refunded every week and obviously you will have seen the law firms willing to take cases up, the consumer watchdog, BBC, the newspapers, solicitors, Internet sites etc.
The contract becomes worthless when it is unlawful and this is why the banks are refunding.
They could put any amount on the leaflets £2000.00 if they wanted to, it does not make it lawful,
It’s like somebody saying to you that they are going to run you over in their car, and then they do it, it does not mean it’s ok because they told you before they did it.
The case for the banks is that there is no case, they have admitted to making 4.5 Billion profit and a huge chunk of that being made from penalty charges, which is deemed unlawful..
That is why they are refunding…
.
Get your money back…….
Go to either
moneysavingexpert.com
and
watch the video on reclaiming bank charges
or goto
penaltycharges.co.uk
Good Luck
Book yourself a holiday, get your charges back, pay for it and enjoy yourself.
The chief executives of these banks do it with your money, the income bracket for a bank Top chief exec is around £75,000.00 per week, ( not per year, per week) thats on the low side, just over ten thousand pounds per day, and thats one of the low earners.
Research yourself, look it up, then claim.
IT IS NOW OFFICALLY RATED AS THE WORST BANK IN THE UK.
GO GET YOUR MONEY BACK
FOR A DIRECT LINK AND TO GET ANYWHERE WITH THEM YOU HAVE TO TELEPHONE HEAD OFFICE AND SPEAK TO A HUMAN, WELL SEMI HUMAN ANYWAY.... 020775 64332
THAT'S 020775 64332
YOU WILL ACTUALLY SPEAK TO SOMEONE HERE DIRECT INSTEAD OF A BLOODY MACHINE, AND YOU CAN TELL THEM WHAT YOU THINK.
Owner Edit:
While your input is appreciated please refrain from ALL CAPITAL posts in the future.
Also ... and I'm not saying that you're doing this ... but I am really ... please do not post under multiple names. Awfully bad form old chap.
Interestingly, I hear on the financial grapevine (that's a bit like the normal grapevine - only the gossip is rather less titillating) that some banks are getting rid of customers that threaten them in this way. They are allowed to close your account (rather like a shopkeeper can refuse to sell you his fine wares if he thinks your eyes are too close together), but apparently not if the reason is you've complained about charges (I think it's technically some sort of discrimination or something).
I'm not saying people shouldn't complain, but just be aware (under what seem to be fairly rare circumstances) you might have to get another bank account if you do (although it struck me I’d probably want to take my refund and go somewhere else anyway as a matter of principle), or end up complaining to the Financial Services Authority that your bank is run by petty-minded idiots who’ve closed your account because you stood up to them.
Subject: Court Case against Abbey
I have filed yesterday a case against Abbey National for £3115 in bank charges. See attached the content of the filing.
I went through the whole procedure before this and was treated very badly by them. Loads of conflicting advice. Some things I was told:
1. we dont have to sent you statements and if you dont have them you cant go to court
2. we dont have managers here you can speak to but we'll call you back (never did)
3. you can go to small claims court unless you first complain to the financial ombudsman
4. charges "that what you get for taking the banks money"
When I asked them for £3500 they "offered" me £385 as a "goodwill gesture". I refused it but they insisted on leaving it in my account. They then advised that because they could show I had already received a payment I couldnt got to small claims court.
From reading your site I had hoped things wouldnt be this difficult but Abbey do seem to be one of the worst banks for claiming refunds.
Roderick
Looks like the banks are now trying to scare their customers even more.
ps. i havent told Richard jones secretary what the matter is about yet, and thats the only reaso i got this far, after calling him an hour befor and being told that he was not in the office and they didnt know when he would be as soon as i mentioned bank charges.
i will update you soon with the resalts.
I would recomend the Ombudsman route. Its free and beacuse they are a public body, you can demand a copy of all of their papers after the adjudication under the Freedom of Information Act - the banks are terrified of this and so have to date, settled every claim pursued through FOS.
I have sent off my DPA request and am expecting it to take another 35 days to get anything... didn't expect the microfishe defense(tm) but then on second thoughts - i should have.
Abbey are most unprofessional, and seem to hire based on the snottiness/arrogance/refusal to see reason of their "customer service" department.
I wrote in to complain about a £400 VISA dispute which I did not make or recognise (they gaurantee protection against this sort of thing), after 3 months and several phone calls I still have heard nothing about this except excuses (you have to fill in a disclaimer form, oops we sent it to the wrong address - let me send another one, and another, and another). It has gotten to the point that I've had to threatan their head office with legal action to get anywhere - and they still do not respond.
In the new year I'm switching from Abbey and never looking back.
Anyone up for sending a few letters of complaint to "groupo santander" that have taken over Abbey? I wonder if their parent company know (or care) what a shambles they have decided to buy.
www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk
Now they cannot send a new debit card to my current address until I register a change of address with them by post.
By the time I get a new debit card on this account I will have been without one for a whole month...
... and add insult to injury I have just tried to use online banking and because this account "has no valid cards associated with it" I am unable to access the information I require... Abbey's incompetence continues to astound me!!!!
And you wouldn't want to come across as an immature, illiterate, shouting moron, would you?
Am I entitled money back for charges such as none payments to my
1. student overdraft account?
2. Charges for going over drawn due to not having money in accounts when your direct debit was due to be paid?
I myself have been charged now around 150 pounds in charges for going over drawn by 5 pounds. I asked specifically not to be able to go overdrawn, but because of a loop in their system certain payments debited out of my account did not show up on the system straight away, which then allows you to make other payments when you do not have funds in your account. So i got overdrawn anyway.
I actually paid all the charges and left some money on my account. I asked the cashier if i was going to incur any more charges and she told me no. Since then I have been charged two more unauthorized overdraft charges of 50 pounds, which apparently were not taken out of my account previously, which has now put me overdrawn again. So now of course being overdrawn again means i am being charged unauthorized overdraft charges which are 25 pounds per a month plus ‘interest and charges’.
I thought lots of people have to be in the same situation as me, if not worse. I am an independent documentary maker and decided to make a short documentary about the ridiculousness of these, and similar policies which banks impose on ordinary people to legally steal their money. I would appreciate if you sent me your story’s of similar situations that you have experienced with Abbey National or any other High street bank.
Please write me on: abbeyripoff@gmail.com
Thanks.
Jonathan
I rang them and they agreed to put my £1100 overdraft back on, and minus £50 each month off my overdraft limit so i can start to pay it back.
3 days later and my available balance is still -£400 and i dont have a penny. i have to end up using my credit card, and just hope to get this sorted. I have 2 direct debits that have bounced, one that was just £1.22 and im going to have to pay abbey a £30 fee just for that!
bottom line is: abbey = W@nkerz!!!
im going to leave abbey as soon as i can. - Stay away from them.
My direct debits were to be changed to the new Abbey Account I had just opened but they screwed this up by not moving them all across from my previous bank. I finally resolved this issue myself as 'they couldn't help'.
I receieved an online banking logon which did not work and being an IT Technician i think I'm competent enough to understand how it should work.
I took out my house and contents insurance with them as it was a bit cheaper only to find they had been charging me two lots of house and contents insurance which I then had to 're-claim'.
I eventually got fed up and asked my previous bank to transfer all of my direct debits back to them (LloydsTSB). Lloyds did this without fault and requested my account with Abbey to be closed (it was a free service they do).
Abbey spent forever holding on to my direct debits causing my account to go into the overdraft. I did not know I was in my overdraft at this point (thinking the account had been closed) until I receieved a paper statement telling me I had incurred interest charges because they are so slow!
I tried paying the amount I owe on my Abbey account but their online banking is not working and their telephone banking is down, not even their advisor could help me as their security question was "please state a transaction on the account within the last 10 days" and there had not been any transactions on my account for months as it was meant to have been closed! They would not accept the answer "there has not been any transaction the account should have been closed".
I now have to try and get into an Abbey branch to pay this ‘interest charge’ by midday on a Saturday as they close at 5pm weekdays and I will never get there in time from work!